sell this house? A Melodrama in 3 Acts, Act IV, Scene 2, Part 1… February 2011
BB (2/3/2011, 11:52am): Forward from SH at the title company to BB …Revised preliminary Hud for seller’s house with new price of $340K. Let me know if you need any other changes please.
BB (2/3/2011, 12:41pm): Email from EN, Loan adjuster Specialist at Wells Fargo, Ft. Mill, SC…
I have gone over all of the seller’s financials that you sent in. Is the seller able to participate towards the loss at closing? The current requested amount is $3,000 cash at closing or a $6,000 promissory note over 120 months at $50 per month interest free. Please let me know as soon as possible, I cannot continue until I have a response from the sellers.
I have also gone over all of the other docs that you sent in and here is what I need to get the file submitted:
- Annuity statement – the copy I have is from 1/2010. I need a more recent one please.
- Need the three Wells Fargo addendums attached completed.
I need the requested docs as soon as possible please. If you run into problems that will slow you down, please let me know.
Thank you and have a good day.
BB (2/3/2011, 1:29pm): another EH/Wells Fargo email.
I approve the first lien short sale only. The second lien is with Citifinancial and I do not approve that short sale. You have to contact Citi and request a short sale from them. My investor will allow $3K to go to the junior lien on the hud. Thanks EN/WF
From BB: So it sound like they are accepting the $340,000 offer, but would like the HUD resubmitted showing only $3000 to Citifinancial. I responded to EH/WF and asked him if this is what he means and let him know that we had previously shown a HUD to Citi with $10,000 and they countered with $20,000. It seems unlikely that Citi would accept $3,000 if they wouldn’t accept $10,000. I asked him to advise and clarify — so if this is really the case then my next step would be to contact Citi and tell them that they are only getting $3,000. What happens then? I don’t know! We’ll see!
BB (2/3/2011, 2:10pm): Emails from EN/Wells Fargo…
I have accepted the $340K offer for submission to the investor. The investor, Freddie Mac, will allow $3K to the junior on the hud… Thanks, EN/Wells Fargo…
Also to clarify, I have accepted $340K to submit to the investor. They have not approved that yet. It is $30K less than what they say the home is worth, so I do not know what their answer will be.
The investor will sometimes allow $1 or $2K over the standard $3K, but I have neveer seen them allow $10K. If Citi won’t budge, we will not be able to continue.
And one more thing to clarify, the investor will allow $3K on the hud. If any other party brings funds to the junior lien balance on the hud, that also has to be approved by Freddie. For example, if the seller agrees to bring $7K to close for the junior, the investor has to approve and they usually do not allow that. Just wanted to warn you. Thanks, EN/Wells Fargo
BB…So, it sounds as if Wells Fargo has approved it, but Freddie Mac still has to approve it. And if Citifinancial doesn’t approve it then we are back to square one. Crossing fingers. And toes. Thanks, BB
ME (2/3/2011, 2:43pm): Hi BB…taking the docs to your office right now. Thanks…
BB(2/3/2011, 3:57pm): Hi…Got them and sent them to K….. to sign. I sent this to EN at Wells Fargo too. We’re good. Thanks…
SH, Title Company (February 3, 2011, 3:07pm): Here is hud w/$3K to 2nd. This hud also has the “verbal” price change. Once your guy gives final approval, please let him know that I will need it from him directly to my inbox or the letter needs to also be addressed to the title company in addition to the borrowers/seller. Thanks…
BB (2/3/2011, 4:13pm): Here’s the new HUD — I’m faxing it to Citifinancial right now and have sent it to Wells Fargo. Thanks!
BB (2/6/2011, 12:30pm): Hi… Well, the RMLS expired sooner than I thought — the expiration date was 2/5/11, so it came up as expired this morning. I put it back on market on RMLS (it’s just a click of a button), but I need you to sign this form (at the place marked with a star) and return it to me. No hurry — just something I’ll need to submit to the office. I put the new expiration dat as May 1st since it’s May Day and I tought that would give plenty of time for this to close. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks!
ME (February 6, 2011, 2:31pm): Thanks. I will sign and drop off at your office tomorrow on my way out of town. I will be in Salem tomorrow and Tuesday at an AARP meeting. Home Tuesday evening.
I cleaned up the parking area. Bulbs were all peeking up and I wanted it to look better. I don’t mind gardening when I don’t HAVE to.
Going to a friend’s tonight for a post Super Bowl meal. She and I could care less about the Super Bowl.
Say…if you hear of any condos, duplexes, or houses for rent, let me know. Would like to stay around $1000. cheers…
BB (2/6/2011, 6:32pm): Perfect. I hope you have a good time in Salem.
I’ve been gardening too — gotta get ready for that garden tour! Even though it’s still four months away, I still feel like there’s a lot to do! But fortunately I have my husband, who is generally good at taking directions.
I don’t care about the Super Bowl either, but it’s another excuse to eat a good meal! I’m making enchiladas. I got inspired after not having use of the kitchen for a couple of weeks — Friday night I made macadamia crusted ahi, pineapple risotto, and a beet citrus salad. We had people over for dinner and they made pear flambe for desert. It was all delicious!
I will definitely let you know if I hear of any place available for you. Did you ever call the people who came to the open house who have their parent’s house available? That seemed like a good lead — they really liked you.
BB (2/8/2011, 9:15pm): Hope you had a good time in Salem!
KS left me a message that her clients would like to go ahead with inspections this Thursday at 2pm. Will that work for you? Kirsten will be there at 2pm on Thursday to meet the inspector. They are trying to be prepared for the banks accepting the offers and this going forward — so that’s good. Let me know if the time works for you. Thanks…
BB (2/11/2011, 10:27am): To EJN (Wells Fargo)…
I just heard from the 2nd lien holder — Citifinancial — and their shortsale department came back saying that they want $25,000. There is no email of documentation for it (I asked for something and T…. at Citifinancial said there is nothing she can send), but they are requiring a payoff of $25,000. T…. phone number is ………. in case you need to talk to her directly. She said that the amount owed on the second is too high to accept $3,000 and they are requiring a $25,000 payoff. She also said that you, Wells Fargo, should be expecting this counter and that it is part of the process.
Where do we go from here? Please advise. Thanks…
BB (2/11/2011, 10:58am): Here is an email from EN, Loan Adjustor Specialist for Wells Fargo
Please read these instructions carefully:
I have approved your short sale on the loan number listed pending these instruction are followed, please make sure closing agent gets a copy of the letter and instructions:
THIS FILE WILL BE ASSIGNED TO SOMEONE IN THE CLOSING DEPT, they will be sending you an introduction email in the next week or so. Please follow their instructions to assure a smooth closing. PLEASE RETURN THE COMPLETED PAGE 4 OF THE ATTACHED LETTER (prior mtg. recording info) ASAP. THE CLOSER MUST RECEIVE A FINAL HUD 48 HOURS BEFORE CLOSE TO REVIEW AND APPROVE FOR SETTLEMENT.
IMMEDIATELY AFTER CLOSE, THE CLOSER MUST RECEIVE AN EMAIL OR FAXED COPY OF THE FULLY EXECUTED FINAL HUD AND A COPY OF THE PROCEEDS CHECK OR WIRE CONFIRMATION.
wE MUST RECEIVE CERTIFIED FUNDS IN THE FORM OF A BANK CHECK, CASHIERS CHECK OR WIRE.
WE DO NOT ACCEPT SETTLEMENT COMPANY CHECKS OR ATTORNEY CHECKS. REMIT CERTIFIED FUNDS AND EXECUTED HUD(S) TO THE ADDRESS REFERENCED ON THIS APPROVAL LETTER AFTER YOU EMAIL THE CLOSER THE COPIES.
PLEASE SEND CLOSER THE INFORMATION ON WHO IS CLOSING THE TRANSACTION FOR YOU (TITLE COL, ATTORNEY, ETC…). WE NEED THE COMPANY, CONTACT, PHONE AND EMAIL ADDRESS. PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT THE CLOSING AGENT GETS ALL CLOSING INSTRUCTIONS.
FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH ANY OF THE ABOVE WILL RESULT IN THE TRANSACTION BEING CANCELLED OR RESCINDED.
Please make sure that the settlement company or closing attorney received the instructions above. If ANY of the information on the approval letter changes such as borrower, sales price, closing costs, adding or removing a borrower or seller, closing date, etc… this loan will NO LONGER be approved for a short sale and I must issue a new approval letter.
Let me know if you have any questions.
ME (2/11/2011, 11:24am): Dear family,
BB just called. Wells Fargo accepted the short sale. However, Citifinancial wants $25,000 now, instead of the $20,000 they asked for before. BB is puzzled. Mainly because Citifi would not send an email or fax documenting the counter offer. Strange way to do business. So now it is back in the hands of Wells Fargo. When BB asked the woman from Citifi why the high amount she said that is the way the “game is played”. Both BB and I are offended by this phrase. This is not a game. People’s lives are in the balance here. So, we will wait to hear.
Oops! BB just called again…More news. Not good. The inspector gave his report to the real estate agent and the potential buyers. He claims ALL the windows in the house need to be replaced, there is a damp smell in the basement (could be from the garage) and the fireplace needs to be completely redone. Not sure what their response will be…or their lender.
As Alice would say, “Curiouser and curiouser”.
BB (2/11/2011, 1:55pm): This is from EN/Wells Fargo:
EN, Loan Adjustor Specialist, Wells Fargo, 2/11/2011, 2:36pm CST): Hello BB,
Please explain to Citi that the investor is Freddie Mac and $3K is all they they will allow to the Junior lien.
BB: So I called Citifinancial and T…. said that EN is wrong and that she has never heard of that. She says she does short sales all the time and has never seen anything like this. But she emailed a different department and said she would call me bak when she gets more information. So I replied to EN:
T…. at Citifinancial says that she knows you are wrong and that Freddie Mac will allow more than only $3,000. She said that the payoff amount is close to $80,000 and that they will not accept only $3,000. I read your email to her. I also read the other email you sent about funds not coming from another source. She said that she had never heard of that, does these short sales all the time and that you are wrong. While I was on the phone, she emailed another department with the information you have given me and is going to call me when she hears from them.
So, I’m a bit frustrated at this point with this process. I don’t know what to do. You say Freddie Mac will only allow $3,000 and she says that you’re wrong and that they will only accept $25,000. It seems that the two of you should talk and you two can figure out how to divide up the $340,000 that the buyer offered for the property. You can call T…. at Citifinancial at ……….. Let me know what you two have figured out.
BB (2/11/2011, 3pm): here’s EN/Wells Fargo’s latest:
I am sorry, I cannot contact the junior lien holder.
When I junior lien holder says that they will accept nothing under $25K, my last email is the response that I must provide. Freddie will sometimes allow $1K or $2 extra on special circumstances. In this case, they may allow some more since our loss is less than theirs. But they will not go to $25K. I will have to submit for a special review on anything over $3K. If they can accept $5k, or maybe $6K, we may have a chance.
Let me know what they say after they discuss it with their other department and we can take it from there.
Thanks and have a good weekend. EN/Wells Fargo
ME (February 11, 2011, 4:38pm): Have a good weekend? Is he kidding?
Either Citifinancial doesn’t know what they are doing…Wells Fargo is bluffing…or he doesn’t want to submit the Short Sale offer to a special review. Crazy… if they don’t take the short sale (Wells Fargo or Citifinancial), looks like they would get nothing.
Well, I have a dance weekend, so I am not going to worry about it right now.
Thanks for all of your hard work…
BB (2/14/2011, 10:56am): Hi EN/Wells Fargo…
I just talked to Citifinancial and they said that you (Wells Fargo) are wrong about the Freddie Mac thing of only offering $3,000. T…. at Citifinancial said that there are two things going on here: 1) they will not accept only $3,000, and 2) it is not correct that Freddie Mac will only allow $3,000. She said that you can have Freddie Mac call Citifinancial to figure out what to do — that there are cases when Freddie Mac does call to be involved in the negotiation process. T…. number is ………..
Ao, at this point, they are refusing to accept $3,000 and saying that your information that the $3,000 is based on Freddie Mac being the investor is incorrect, and asking you to have Freddie Mac call them directly to work it out. Please email me back when you have received this and let me know that you are proceeding with having Freddie Mac phone Citifinancial directly.
ME (February 15, 2011, 3:24pm): Dear BB,
Lousy day. Good for staying inside.
EN/Wells Fargo’s approval email states that we need to reply in 48 hours. Have you emailed him about Citifinancial? Anything new? I’m just concerned that Friday’s email says to comply with the instructions or the transaction will be cancelled or rescinded. Any answers for me?
BB (2/15/2011, 3:29pm): Hi… No word from EN/Wells Fargo today. He works late hours (3pm to 10pm) so usually I don’t hear from him until the evening. I did talk to him last week about that 48 hour thing and he said that waiting until we heard from Citifinancial was fine and that he didn’t need it back immediately. I’ll let you know as soon as I hear anything.
Yes, it is a lousy day! Bundle up and drink some hot apple cider! Thanks…
EN/Wells Fargo Loan Adjustor Specialist (Feb 16, 2011, 3:14am CST): Hello BB,
I am sorry, we do not contact the junior lien and neither does the investor.
Please let me know if junior lowers their requirement from $25K. If they do not lower requirement, we will not be able to continue with the short sale.
BB (2/16/2011, 10:35am): Hi EN/Wells Fargo…
I’m sorry, but I don’t accept that at all. The junior lien has requested that the investor call them directly. It is not my job to figure this out if the junior lien has requested that. It is absurd to not follow through with this on your end by just saying that you do not contact the junior lien and neither does the investor. There is an offer for $340,000 that you, the first, have accepted, shorting the second drastically. If they request to talk to the investor to figure this out then it is your responsibility to take those steps to do so. At $340,000, Wells Fargo is not being shorted to the degree that Citifinancial is and they are requiring that the investor contact them to discuss this. Again, it is not my job to figure this out. You have a client who you need to work for and with to figure this out and what is necessary at this point is that the investor, or you yourself, contact Citifinancial to figure out the disbursement of the funds.
I just talked to Tammy at Citifinancial and she said that they will not accept $3,000. She will be happy to talk to you or the investor about it, but she will not call you directly. She would like you or the investor to call her directly. Her number is ……….. She said that it is unfair that Wells Fargo is only shorting themselves $4000 and that Citifinancial is being shorted over $75,000. She said that Wells Fargo, you, can resubmit another offer to them that makes the deal more equitable.
You, Ed, need to either call Citifinancial directly, have the investor, Freddie Mac, call Citifinancial directly, or give me a different offer to submit to Citifinancial. Their current figure is $25,000, and they will not accept $3000. Can you please figure out a new amount to submit to Citifinancial and either call them directly with that figure or let me know what it is so I can have the HUD redrawn and submit it myself?
I think this process is absolutely absurd and I think that you are doing your client a huge disservice and the mortgage industry in general a huge disservice if you do not figure out a way to make this happen.
BB (2/16/2011, 10:44am): Email to AH@wellsfargo.com
I am the realtor working with ME on this case. We have been on the market for over a year and currently have an offer of $340,000. There are no other offers. The original amount was for $325,000, and Wells Fargo countered that with $370,000. The buyers came back with $340,000, which was accepted.
The issue now is the distribution of those funds and the lack of communication between the first, Wells Fargo, and the second, Citifinancial. Wells Fargo, via EN, accepted the $340,000, and offered Citifinancial $3,000. Citifinancial came back with a request for $25,000. EN said that the investor is Freddie Mac and that the $3000 is all that they would allow. Citifinancial has asked for Wells Fargo or Freddie Mac to contact them directly. Phone……..
EN/Wells Fargo said that neither party will. T…. (Citifinancial) said she won’t call Wells Fargo or Freddie Mac herself, but will be happy to talk to them if they call.
Wells Fargo is being shorted $4000 in this sale while Citifinancial is being shorted over $75,000. Citifinancial said that they will not accept $3000, but that Wells Fargo can submit another offer to them that they will consider.
I am at a loss on how to help my client at this point. I think it is absolutely absurd that the two parties won’t talk to each other to firue out an equitable and acceptable distribution of funds. I feel that both banks are doing their client, ME, a grave disservice by not having a way to figure this out between them. I also feel that it is absurd to put a realtor in the middle of this dysfunctional process and that it is not my job to figure out what should be figured out between the two parties who are going to share the funds from this sale.
Can you please help me with this? What I need is either a confirmation that Wells Fargo is talking to Citifinancial directly about how to distribute these short sale funds, OR a new offer to submit to Cititfinancial that is a more equitable distribution.
ME (February 16, 2011, 11:41am): Dear BB,
Wow! I am impressed with your emails to Wells Fargo. You certainly hit the nail on the head. All Wells Fargo has to do is talk a little less and give Citifi a little more. Is that so hard? If the house goes into foreclosure nobody wins. Crazy.
Thanks for all your had work.
I am leaving the house because a realtor is howing it at 12:30.
BB (2/16/2011, 12:14pm): Thanks… I hope it works! AH….is the name at the bottom of EN/Wells Fargo’s emails — it says:
It is our mission to provide excellent customer service. If I have not met your servicing expectations , please contact my manager directly at A….H……@wellsfargo.com
So I though I’d go straight to her at this point and see if she can step in and help. My next thought was to ask for Tammy’s manager at Citifinancial.
Funny thing is, my horoscope today says: “taking on responsibilities that don’t belong to you will end in disaster.” I’m trying to listen to that!
I think it may be helpful for you to step in sometime and call both bands and tell them that they need to work this out. Since you are their client, I see it that they have a duty to you to provide you with good service. Even if it is the situation that you’re not able to repay the loan — you do have a viable offer from serious dedicated buyers, you have gone through all of the steps and hoops that the system required of you, and now they need to work together on your behalf to make this process work. What do you think of that? I’d start with Wells Fargo and tell them that you are deeply unsatisfied with how this is going at this point…
Let me know if you want to take that on. I think it’s worth a try.
ME (February 16, 2011, 2:38pm): Dear BB,
Good idea! Will do!
BB (2/16/2011, 2:47pm): I would start with Citifinancial and let them know that if they don’t accept the $3000 then they are getting nothing. If it goes into foreclosure, then they don’t get a penny. It’s in their best interests to accept it.
BB (2/16/2011, 5:11pm): Hi EN/Wells Fargo,
I’ve talked to four Principal Brokers, three short sale specialist and two other banks and what I have come up with is that none of those people have ever heard of the Freddie Mac limit of $3000. They have heard that the second doesn’t get very much, typically, but none have heard about this limit you speak of. Can you please direct me to where I can find out more about this Freddie Mac limit?
Also Citifinancial is not accepting $3000 and will not look at it again unless we submit them something else. Can you please go back to Freddie Mac and ask them to renegotiate to offer Citifinancial a different figure? Once I get the word from you then I will ask escrow to redo the HUD and resubmit everything to Citifinancial.
You mentioned special circumstances where Freddie Mac may allow a larger amount– I believe we are at that point. T…. at Citifinancial seeme to be bound to only respond to me that they will not accept $3000 and is currently saying that they will only accept $25,000. However, she did say to submit something else to her, so this seems to be the only option at this point.
ME (February 16, 2011, 6:11pm): Dear BB,
I have been on the phone with my daughter in NYC. Just read your email. Wow! I tried calling Citifinancial and kept getting a busy signal. Haven’t they heard of voice mail? Anyway, I started a letter to AH/Wells Fargo, but had a call.
I looked back in EN/Wells Fargo’s emails. On 2/11/2011 at 3pm PST…he writes: “…Freddie will sometimes allow $1k or $2k extra on special circumstances. In this case they may allow some more since our loss is less than theirs…I will have to submit for a special review on anything over $3k. If they can accept $5k or $6k, we may have a chance…”
So…He should be submitting this Short Sale for a special review… I feel his bosses have told him to get as much as he can, so he is holding to that $3-6 number. Does Ed have someone over him that we could email?
I would hate to see this go into foreclosure over such a small amount of $ where nobody wins.
You must have put on your Superwoman outfit today, because you are super!
BB (2/16/2011, 6:19pm): Hi,
So that’s what I’m asking him to do at this point — look into the special circumstances and see if he can come up with more. I think AH is his superior — that’s why I wrote her earlier. Everyone says that it’s just Citifinancial playing hardball. But T…. is difficult to get anywhere with. So I’m hoping Ed will give me something else to give to T…. and that we can go from there.
It’s frustrating. My superwoman cape is becoming a bit frayed, I’m afrayed (pun and misspelling intended!). Maybe I’ll hear from EN by tomorrow. I’ll let you know.
Have a good night!
BB (2/17/2011, 12:49pm): Hi…I may be getting somewhere. Read the emails below. And don’t stress about it all — there’s nothing to be done except to ride out the system, do what we can, and accept what will be. You’ll be fine, regardless. So nor more worrying — you need to take care of yourself and just let the chips fall where they may.
You don’t have to read all this right now if you don’t want to — so wait until you feel up to it. There is an email I send EN/Wells Fargo this morning, his reply and then my additional reply. I’ve also attached the Freddie Mac form that I refer to.
I’m hopeful. I’m trying not to get too hopeful, but I’m hopeful!
Recent BB/EN emails:
BB: Hi EN,
I haven’t heard back from you yet about different numbers to submit to Citifinancial — are you working on that for me?
I looked up some Freddie Mac stuff and found this…
b. Subordinate Liens. We will allow up to six percent (6%) of the unpaid principal balance of each subordinate lien in order of priority, not to exceed a total of $6000, to be deducted from the gross sale proceeds to pay subordinate lien holders to release their liens. We require each subordinate lien holder to release you from personal liability for the loans in order for the sale to qualify for this program, but we do not take any responsiblity for ensuring that the lien holders do not seek to enforce personal liability against you. Therefore, we recommend that you take steps to satisfy yourself that the subordinate lien holders relase you from personal liability.
So I called Citifinancial and read it to T…. (she won’t do email) and her response was that she does a ton of short sales and typically sees a 10% payoff. I told her about the $3000 average that others have told me about and she said that is probably because the loan amount was around $25,000. This loan is $80,000, so she said that it’s a large loan and a $3000 payout on a $80,000 loan will not work. She again encouraged me to submit another offer. So, 6% of $80,000 is $4800.
Can you see if Freddie Mac will allow $5000 or even $6000 (their cap according to the paragraph above) and let me know so I can resubmit to Citifinancial? I’d like to do it sooner rather than later, of course, so your immediate attention would be greatly appreciated.
On another note, our client, is 78 years old and has high blood pressure issues. She emailed me this morning that her blood pressure has soared in the past two days. I don’t want to see her have health problems because of this — so please help me out here and give me some good news that I can pass on to her.
EN/Wells Fargo: Hello BB,
I am in contact with the investor everyday and nothing has changed as far as I know.
The 6% that you read is either an older guideline or a different kind of short sale, I am not sure. 3% or $3K has been in place for over a year.
$4800 to $6K might be considered as I have mentioned. I will submit with $6 as soon as I can and let you know when I hear back.
BB: Hi EN,
Thanks for replying and thanks for submitting the $6000. It sounds like it’s a special circumstance if T…. from Citifinancial is saying that most loans are under $30,000, which is why $3000 can be accepted because it is still 10% of the loan amount. But with a loan of $80,000, which is an unusually large loan, the $3000 is not acceptable to them. It seems like what they would ideally like, given her 10% figure, is approximately $8000. I explained the $6000 number and read her that paragraph, so that HOPEFULLY will go through.
Just so you know, that information is from Freddie Mac Form #1135 on their website. The date at the bottom is 6/10 — so it’s something that is less than a year old. And it would appear that the $3000 or 3% gideline you speak of is probably attached to loans that have a more typical value of less than $30,000.
Regardless, thank you for submitting this and let’s make this happen.
BB (2/17/2011, 1:12pm): Hi ME,
Disregard that attachement I sent from Freddie Mac. EN says that it doesn’t apply since this is a traditional short sale.
Regardless, it looks like we’re moving forward with coming up with something different for Citifinancial, so at least that part is still hopeful.